Such great points here, especially about how humans suffer in the industry too. Animal agriculture is just awful all around. Also, vegans aren't always comparing animal suffering to human suffering? We're just reminding that animals do suffer - immensely and unimaginably. That doesn't take away from all the other suffering in the world.
Thank you so much, Sascha! You are right: what makes animal suffering worth considering isn't necessarily an equality with human suffering, but the absence of a morally relevant difference. There is the analogy of (most) people valuing humans over dogs but they would still agree that kicking neither is preferable.
My observation is that people use different arguments when justifying their actions to other people and when justifying their actions to themselves and their conscience. The rejection of comparison between animal and human suffering seems particularly used in the first circumstance rather than the second. Arguing that animal sentience and thus suffering is somehow lesser is advanced as an argument because it can't be 'proved' otherwise, and 'I have a right to my own opinion' etc. Outrage is expressed for example, should anyone dare to talk about the Holocaust and animal suffering in the same breath. Yet the overwhelming majority of people can see the same fear, pain, suffering and despair in the eyes of a factory farmed animal, as in the eyes of a preverbal child in a war zone... neither can rationalise what is happening to them (could anyone?), but both are visibly feeling it in every fibre of their being. This argument (human suffering can't be compared to animal suffering) is offered in conversation, but for most people simply doesn't ring true in their gut. So they use a different argument in their own inner dialogue.... that the pictures of torment and animal suffering all over the internet are from other places in the world, or the inevitable 'bad apples' in an otherwise good welfare system, and that none of those animals have ended up on their own personal plate. The human psyche is complex, devious and self-serving. Thank you Pala for continuing to unpick these untruths and self-deceptions so meticulously.
That’s a very interesting observation, Sarah. I never thought about it this way! Distinguishing between these two types of justifications seems really useful, also as a tool for self-reflection. I’m definitely taking notes. I often try to remember how exactly I felt myself when I was still a necrovore, how on earth I managed to justify paying for all this unspeakable cruelty without feeling awful all the time. It’s fascinating how our mind works, and how strong unconscious biases and cognitive dissonance can be. I might have said this before, but I feel one of the most important things that are missing is the lack of immediacy and emotional connection. We may “know” that animals are abused for our consumption, but we don’t really see it, feel it, realize it. That makes it really difficult to have a deep bodily experience of empathy - especially in times where we are constantly bombarded with gruesome news anyways. That’s why I see a huge potential in the application of Virtual Reality technologies in vegan outreach. I’ve seen it in action on other people, and I have tried it myself. The effect is stunning. I’m planning to write about this at some point. Thanks a lot for stopping by and sharing your thoughts, Sarah!
Such great points here, especially about how humans suffer in the industry too. Animal agriculture is just awful all around. Also, vegans aren't always comparing animal suffering to human suffering? We're just reminding that animals do suffer - immensely and unimaginably. That doesn't take away from all the other suffering in the world.
Thank you so much, Sascha! You are right: what makes animal suffering worth considering isn't necessarily an equality with human suffering, but the absence of a morally relevant difference. There is the analogy of (most) people valuing humans over dogs but they would still agree that kicking neither is preferable.
So true!
Oh wow, congrats on having already reached 10,000s of readers! So happy for you, Pala!
My observation is that people use different arguments when justifying their actions to other people and when justifying their actions to themselves and their conscience. The rejection of comparison between animal and human suffering seems particularly used in the first circumstance rather than the second. Arguing that animal sentience and thus suffering is somehow lesser is advanced as an argument because it can't be 'proved' otherwise, and 'I have a right to my own opinion' etc. Outrage is expressed for example, should anyone dare to talk about the Holocaust and animal suffering in the same breath. Yet the overwhelming majority of people can see the same fear, pain, suffering and despair in the eyes of a factory farmed animal, as in the eyes of a preverbal child in a war zone... neither can rationalise what is happening to them (could anyone?), but both are visibly feeling it in every fibre of their being. This argument (human suffering can't be compared to animal suffering) is offered in conversation, but for most people simply doesn't ring true in their gut. So they use a different argument in their own inner dialogue.... that the pictures of torment and animal suffering all over the internet are from other places in the world, or the inevitable 'bad apples' in an otherwise good welfare system, and that none of those animals have ended up on their own personal plate. The human psyche is complex, devious and self-serving. Thank you Pala for continuing to unpick these untruths and self-deceptions so meticulously.
That’s a very interesting observation, Sarah. I never thought about it this way! Distinguishing between these two types of justifications seems really useful, also as a tool for self-reflection. I’m definitely taking notes. I often try to remember how exactly I felt myself when I was still a necrovore, how on earth I managed to justify paying for all this unspeakable cruelty without feeling awful all the time. It’s fascinating how our mind works, and how strong unconscious biases and cognitive dissonance can be. I might have said this before, but I feel one of the most important things that are missing is the lack of immediacy and emotional connection. We may “know” that animals are abused for our consumption, but we don’t really see it, feel it, realize it. That makes it really difficult to have a deep bodily experience of empathy - especially in times where we are constantly bombarded with gruesome news anyways. That’s why I see a huge potential in the application of Virtual Reality technologies in vegan outreach. I’ve seen it in action on other people, and I have tried it myself. The effect is stunning. I’m planning to write about this at some point. Thanks a lot for stopping by and sharing your thoughts, Sarah!