Thank you for this candid, fact-based, succinct portraiture of the grim reality of industrialized animal agriculture. Through my own years of animal advocacy and activism, I can confirm that everything you're saying is correct, to the very best of my knowledge. What's also abhorrent is that our tax dollars subsidize and indemnify this creation and maintenance of hell on earth. I'll be sharing this and paying for a subscription to support your work.
It is abhorrent, Sarah... But as the famous quote goes: “Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come.” Veganism is here to stay. And this disgusting industry will die much faster than most people can imagine. I will do everything in my power to speed up this process. Thank you so much for your trust and encouragement - it means the world to me!
You're absolutely right, what is going on in the animal industry is truly hell on earth for these wonderful beings. And all of them are individuals with a soul and a right to live. The impact on our societies that tolerate these cruelties should not be underestimated. It's like a layer of horror that is supposed to be normal.
Thank you for your feedback, Susanne! It is an unspeakable disgrace that our society allows this to happen. Those of us who truly understand the magnitude of this issue will not rest until this industry is gone forever. It will not be easy, but we WILL get there. There is not the slightest doubt in my heart.
Thank you so much, Michael! And sorry for not being more active on this platform. My life is insanely packed at the moment. I barely find the time to write my articles... But I'm trying my best 💚 Sending a big hug!
First of all, I am very thankful for your activism and sharing info on vegan matters. I find your articles bold and hard-hitting, the type I would never be able to write myself.
Second of all, I believe the more accurate title for this piece to be 'Livestock farming is the biggest man-made source of suffering in the world'. The passage that the suffering created by livestock farming is bigger than the one found in nature is not convincing, imo.
- livestock are more numerous than big wild mammals and birds, certainly fish, small mammals and sentient invertebrates trump their numbers, and by a large margin.
- as for the value judgement, I agree that human-made suffering of livestock is more evil than that of wild animals.
This all means that livestock are the second biggest group of suffering individuals and probably the first group when it comes to suffering that could easily be solved, meliorated.
I can provide a bibliography on Wild Animal Suffering if you are interested.
Thank you so much for your positive feedback, and for sharing your critical thoughts. I really appreciate your time and effort.
You are right: fish and small mammals certainly trump the numbers of farmed animals.
However, that doesn't mean that they represent the largest source of suffering on this planet. Small mammals and fish just living their lives doesn't equal suffering. Most of them, I assume, have quite good lives in the wild. Of course, some of them will be killed by predators - but that's only a few moments, whereas they have lived the rest of their lives in freedom. Farmed animals, however, live their entire lives in confinement. Many of them never see the sun in their entire life. 99% of animals in the U.S. are factory farmed - and we take everything from them that could possibly make their lives worth living. There are billions of farmed animals. And they experience SO much more suffering than free animals in the wild that I'm still positive that the livestock sector is the biggest source of suffering on this planet. If you still don't agree, I'm very curious to hear your thoughts. :)
Thanks again for your time, and for your interest in my work - and have a wonderful day!
Here is a biomass visualization: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/08/total-biomass-weight-species-earth/ Notice how much large the populations of sentient species of fish (and probably invertebrates) are compared to the farmed animals. Also, biomass does not equal nr of individuals, so the numbers of wild animals sentient individuals are much larger than this, mainly because they are smaller than farmed animals.
Now, with this being said, you make a good point about the difference between the suffering of wild animals and of farmed ones. Still, I believe a more accurate title for your article to be 'Livestock farming is not only one of the biggest but also the worst source of suffering in the world'.
I am very passionate about the ethics of wild animals so I look forward to an answer from you.
All the best and, once again, I am thankful for your work and advocacy.
You raise some very valid and interesting points here. Thank you very much for linking these insightful sources. I think what we can agree on is that livestock farming is the biggest human-made source of suffering in the world - thus the biggest source that is directly relevant for our decision-making.
While it is certainly philosophically interesting to think about the "ethics of wild animals" as you call it, we will - for better or worse - likely never be able to control the behavior of all wildlife. When it comes to environmental protection and animal welfare, as a general principle, our focus should be on what we can directly influence (such as consumption of animal products) and not on dynamics that are far beyond our control.
While the title you have proposed ('Livestock farming is not only one of the biggest but also the worst source of suffering in the world') may be more precise, it raises other questions, such as "what exactly does 'worst' mean?" - and I also think that it is too long to serve as an effective title for a blog post.
Nonetheless, I really appreciate that you have shared your sources and very valid thoughts. I appreciate your passion for this topic, and will certainly read the articles you have linked. Thank you so much for your time and interest! Given that my blog is very young and doesn't have a big following yet, it means a lot to me.
Thank you for this candid, fact-based, succinct portraiture of the grim reality of industrialized animal agriculture. Through my own years of animal advocacy and activism, I can confirm that everything you're saying is correct, to the very best of my knowledge. What's also abhorrent is that our tax dollars subsidize and indemnify this creation and maintenance of hell on earth. I'll be sharing this and paying for a subscription to support your work.
It is abhorrent, Sarah... But as the famous quote goes: “Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come.” Veganism is here to stay. And this disgusting industry will die much faster than most people can imagine. I will do everything in my power to speed up this process. Thank you so much for your trust and encouragement - it means the world to me!
You're absolutely right, what is going on in the animal industry is truly hell on earth for these wonderful beings. And all of them are individuals with a soul and a right to live. The impact on our societies that tolerate these cruelties should not be underestimated. It's like a layer of horror that is supposed to be normal.
Thank you for your feedback, Susanne! It is an unspeakable disgrace that our society allows this to happen. Those of us who truly understand the magnitude of this issue will not rest until this industry is gone forever. It will not be easy, but we WILL get there. There is not the slightest doubt in my heart.
Thank you for keeping up the spirit. I know, too, that we will not stop.
Good job!
Thank you so much, Michael! And sorry for not being more active on this platform. My life is insanely packed at the moment. I barely find the time to write my articles... But I'm trying my best 💚 Sending a big hug!
Hello
First of all, I am very thankful for your activism and sharing info on vegan matters. I find your articles bold and hard-hitting, the type I would never be able to write myself.
Second of all, I believe the more accurate title for this piece to be 'Livestock farming is the biggest man-made source of suffering in the world'. The passage that the suffering created by livestock farming is bigger than the one found in nature is not convincing, imo.
- livestock are more numerous than big wild mammals and birds, certainly fish, small mammals and sentient invertebrates trump their numbers, and by a large margin.
- as for the value judgement, I agree that human-made suffering of livestock is more evil than that of wild animals.
This all means that livestock are the second biggest group of suffering individuals and probably the first group when it comes to suffering that could easily be solved, meliorated.
I can provide a bibliography on Wild Animal Suffering if you are interested.
Dear Petricia,
Thank you so much for your positive feedback, and for sharing your critical thoughts. I really appreciate your time and effort.
You are right: fish and small mammals certainly trump the numbers of farmed animals.
However, that doesn't mean that they represent the largest source of suffering on this planet. Small mammals and fish just living their lives doesn't equal suffering. Most of them, I assume, have quite good lives in the wild. Of course, some of them will be killed by predators - but that's only a few moments, whereas they have lived the rest of their lives in freedom. Farmed animals, however, live their entire lives in confinement. Many of them never see the sun in their entire life. 99% of animals in the U.S. are factory farmed - and we take everything from them that could possibly make their lives worth living. There are billions of farmed animals. And they experience SO much more suffering than free animals in the wild that I'm still positive that the livestock sector is the biggest source of suffering on this planet. If you still don't agree, I'm very curious to hear your thoughts. :)
Thanks again for your time, and for your interest in my work - and have a wonderful day!
Hello and sorry for my late response,
You are right that, more often than not, death for wild animals is rather quick and even when not, some hours of agony will not cancel a regular life.
However, there are two things here that philosophers preoccupied with the topic usually like to point at:
1 Most animals live very short and very bad lives; in fact, the lives of the vast majority of animals in the wild consist mainly of dying. That is because they are killed shortly after being born. This point is very well made by Oscar Horta in the paper 'Debunking the idyllic view of natural process' https://www.stafforini.com/docs/Horta%20-%20Debunking%20the%20idyllic%20view%20of%20natural%20processes.pdf
2 Even regular lives of animals in the wild are filled with misery, fear, hunger and so on.
See the section 'How Wild Animals Suffer' from here: https://longtermrisk.org/the-importance-of-wild-animal-suffering/#How_Wild_Animals_Suffer Also here are some details: https://www.animal-ethics.org/situation-of-animals-wild/
Here is a biomass visualization: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/08/total-biomass-weight-species-earth/ Notice how much large the populations of sentient species of fish (and probably invertebrates) are compared to the farmed animals. Also, biomass does not equal nr of individuals, so the numbers of wild animals sentient individuals are much larger than this, mainly because they are smaller than farmed animals.
Now, with this being said, you make a good point about the difference between the suffering of wild animals and of farmed ones. Still, I believe a more accurate title for your article to be 'Livestock farming is not only one of the biggest but also the worst source of suffering in the world'.
I am very passionate about the ethics of wild animals so I look forward to an answer from you.
All the best and, once again, I am thankful for your work and advocacy.
Dear Petricia,
I'm very sorry for the late response!
You raise some very valid and interesting points here. Thank you very much for linking these insightful sources. I think what we can agree on is that livestock farming is the biggest human-made source of suffering in the world - thus the biggest source that is directly relevant for our decision-making.
While it is certainly philosophically interesting to think about the "ethics of wild animals" as you call it, we will - for better or worse - likely never be able to control the behavior of all wildlife. When it comes to environmental protection and animal welfare, as a general principle, our focus should be on what we can directly influence (such as consumption of animal products) and not on dynamics that are far beyond our control.
While the title you have proposed ('Livestock farming is not only one of the biggest but also the worst source of suffering in the world') may be more precise, it raises other questions, such as "what exactly does 'worst' mean?" - and I also think that it is too long to serve as an effective title for a blog post.
Nonetheless, I really appreciate that you have shared your sources and very valid thoughts. I appreciate your passion for this topic, and will certainly read the articles you have linked. Thank you so much for your time and interest! Given that my blog is very young and doesn't have a big following yet, it means a lot to me.
Have a wonderful day!